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Marky Ramone: It's not just about the RAMONES. The book is about the beginnings of the entire punk scene in New York and what I did before. I grew up in Brooklyn and played in various bands before I started hanging out at CBGB's in '74. I decided to write the book because I was in a band for 15 years, played 1,700 concerts, and recorded ten studio albums. That's a lot. And I am the last one who can do it, being one of the RAMONES from the seventies along with Johnny, Joey, Dee Dee, and Tommy. Through my involvement with the band, the film "Rock 'n' Roll High School", working with Phil Spector, and the "Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame", which transitioned to the Grammys, I had insights that I wanted to share – written by a Ramone, not an outsider. That's why I wanted to publish the book. To debunk rumors.
King Kraut: Are misconceptions about the RAMONES revealed in your book?
Marky Ramone: Oh yes. For example, it is not true that Phil Spector threatened us with a gun. I don't want to destroy anyone's intact worldview here, but that's not how it happened. He had a gun with him, but he didn't aim it at us. He just laid it down next to the mixing console because it was heavy. He never threatened any of us. But the rumor has been circulating for 34 years.
King Kraut: Maybe the story is so good that people like to believe it.
Marky Ramone: The thing is: It's not true. That distinguishes this book from others.
King Kraut: What was your motivation when you started as a musician?
Marky Ramone: I saw the BEATLES on "The Ed Sullivan Show", a very popular variety show in America at the time. They performed there on February 7, 1964. I was a little boy. I found them very lively, like cartoon characters. And as a little boy, you like cartoon characters. Ringo (the drummer, ed.) was like a cartoon hero to me. After that, I started banging on objects and driving my parents crazy.
King Kraut: Did your drive change once you had been playing drums for a while?
Marky Ramone: Yes. I wasn't good in school. So playing drums was the only thing I enjoyed doing. Later, I became interested in other drummers besides Ringo who played more technically demanding, like Mitch Mitchell from THE JIMI HENDRIX EXPERIENCE, Keith Moon from THE WHO, Ginger Baker from CREAM, jazz drummer Buddy Rich, Joe Morello from the DAVE BRUBECK BAND. I never took lessons. I would come home, go to my room, and play along with my little Victrola stereo. Eventually, I formed a band with friends, and we played current hits from the top ten, whatever was popular at the time.
That was maybe '66-'67. I was around 14 or 15 years old. Gradually, I got better and kept playing. Then we formed one of the first heavy metal bands in America called DUST. We had already written our first album when the first BLACK SABBATH album arrived in America. There was no heavy metal in America. There were no hard styles like hard rock. The term "heavy metal" hadn't even been invented yet. That came a bit later. We went to high school and made two albums. We had to graduate. We disbanded after two albums. Our two albums were reissued by Sony. The bassist and I remastered them. You have to remember that we were 17 years old at the time. But we played very technically demanding music.
Then I made an album with Andrew Holden, the producer of the ROLLING STONES. I played on an album for [the label] Columbia. I was approaching 20. I wanted to do it because he was the producer. "Oh yeah, the ROLLING STONES producer, wow!" You know.
I played on the album, I liked the band (ESTUS, country rock. ed.), but it wasn't my kind of music. So I moved on at that point. I started hanging out in New York at "Max's Kansas City", which was the alternative to CBGB's at the time. There I met Wayne County. I played music with him for a while. He was a transvestite. People loved him in New York, but he was ahead of his time. A great songwriter, great voice. The problem was he was too extreme. Today he would get away with what he did back then.
But to get back to drumming, I got the offer to join Richard Hell & THE VOIDOIDS. He had just left a band called THE HEARTBREAKERS with Johnny Thunders and Jerry Nolan, who were also my friends. He wanted to form a band with me called THE VOIDOIDS, and we made the "Blank Generation" album, [of which] the [title track] became a punk anthem. It had a kind of jazz feel, it just flew forward. Then we released the album on the same label as the RAMONES, Sire Records. We all knew each other. In early '77, we toured England with THE CLASH. But when we returned, Richard didn't want to tour anymore. He had a heroin problem, and I wanted to keep touring.
At that time, Tommy Ramone wanted to stop playing. After three and a half years, I thought: Why? Dee Dee, who had already been a friend of mine before I joined them, asked me if I wanted to play with the RAMONES. They said, let's rehearse together and see how it goes, and then we'll see. So we rehearsed, played three or four songs, and it worked. The first song I recorded with them was "I Wanna Be Sedated". I stayed in the band for five years. After that time, amidst all the madness, the film shoot, the album, it was overwhelming.
Dee Dee Ramone started using heroin around 1982. He had done it before, but it got worse. I drank more. It got to the point where they told me I had to leave the band. I agreed because they were right.
I could have died. I could have killed someone, I could have ended up in prison. I could have done something during a blackout that I didn't even know about. So I took a break from music for four years. I got sober. Then I returned and stayed in the band for another nine years.
King Kraut: How did you quit drinking?
Marky Ramone: I went through two rehab programs, then I went to Alcoholics Anonymous. And when I went there, I saw that I wasn't the only one with this problem. There were people who had the same problem as I did. So I didn't feel alone. I don't miss it. I admit that I had a lot of fun drinking. But it affected my life too much. I had enough of the headaches, drinking when I woke up – that was enough.
When I came back in '87, the first song I played on was "Pet Sematary" for the soundtrack of Stephen King (film adaptation of "Pet Sematary", ed.). That's a pretty good way to come back.
It was that simple, you know. But when you play 1,700 concerts in a band, you really do it automatically. Like going to the gym.
So that was how I got into drumming. With all these drummers I mentioned. But you have to like a lot of things. You can't limit yourself to one genre of music. You have to be open to jazz, blues, rock, metal, punk. You can't just stick to one; otherwise, you won't make it. You won't grow, you won't get better.
King Kraut: When listening to the RAMONES, it seems to me that you changed your playing style. Not fundamentally, but still. Did you feel that could be a problem?
Marion: Are you a drummer?
King Kraut: Yes.
Marion: I knew it!
Marky Ramone: What I did was make the sound heavier. I tuned the drums differently so they sounded bigger than they were. Without diminishing Tommy's performance, I felt the band needed a heavier sound at that time. That was my contribution. I played in the same 4/4 time, just tighter. I'm a "heavier" drummer than Tommy was. And I added fills here and there, which weren't present on RAMONES albums – nowhere. But only where it didn't interrupt the song. I placed the fills in the right spots, not too long, so as not to interrupt the vocals or the guitar. Just to support the flow of the song. I think that makes the difference.
King Kraut: Did that develop over time? I listened to the album "Road to Ruin", from your early days with the RAMONES. Today I listened to the album "Brain Drain" from '87 with the song "All Screwed Up". There you really let loose with the drum rolls compared to an early record.
Marky Ramone: No. You can't always just make three-chord albums. You have to evolve. Like the BEATLES. Their first three or four albums are great. But they had to change a bit. Then came the albums "Revolver" and "Rubber Soul". They started with a lot of new things and became more progressive. And I can view that with the RAMONES. "Road to Ruin" was the "Rubber Soul" of the RAMONES. On the song "Pet Sematary", I then had a lot of fills. The pieces needed that. When you record a demo, you play straightforward. The songs were missing something. So I filled in the gaps. I placed drum fills where I felt they were needed. Every good drummer knows where to place fills and where not to. Some overdo it, and that's not good. You shouldn't do that. Because then you ruin the song. You just have to play straight through and do your thing at the right moment.
King Kraut: It's interesting that you mentioned Ringo Starr earlier, because you might have something in common: not overdoing it on the drums. The BEATLES wouldn't have worked as a band if the drummer had played too much in the foreground.
Marky Ramone: Ringo was perfect for the BEATLES. Keith Moon was perfect for THE WHO. If you put Ringo in THE WHO, it wouldn't work. If you put Keith Moon in the BEATLES, it wouldn't work. You have to be able to adapt to the band or the person you're making music with. The approach is to adapt rather than think of yourself. To keep the big picture in mind.
King Kraut: Since we're talking about the technical aspect, how difficult was it for you to get to the right tempo?
Marky Ramone: It was something different. It wasn't a physical challenge, because my first band, DUST, was physically demanding. Back then, I played ten-minute drum solos, with the RAMONES just eighth notes on the hi-hat, the ride cymbal, and the floor tom.
Occasionally, we played songs in 2/4 time. The songs came one after another, "OneTwoThreeFour!". Every song started right away, there was hardly any talking. That was the real difference. We played for an hour and fifteen or twenty minutes. When you do that for a while, it gets easier, like everything. So it wasn't a challenge; it was just an adjustment for me.
I got their album and a cassette of their live set. I had to learn 25 songs from their live set and "Road to Ruin" with a boombox, with headphones, on a practice pad, in two weeks. We recorded "Road to Ruin" in New York and started playing live. First concert, flawless. Everyone was happy, it was great. I was happy to have overcome that hurdle. Because at the first performance, you always wonder if you can do it properly. If you make mistakes. But there were none. So everyone was happy. What was also good was that Tommy was the producer. So he knew how to get the good drum sound, and that was important. With a shitty drum sound, the whole album is shit. A good drummer doesn't necessarily make a good band. But a bad drummer can ruin the band, you know what I mean?
King Kraut: That's true. Although, the very first Elvis Presley recordings were even without drums.
Marky Ramone: You know what else was done? Back then, they would bang on a suitcase. (Drums a rock 'n' roll beat on the table)
King Kraut: They also banged on the double bass. Sure, you can't get far in rock music without drums.
Marky Ramone: No. You can play a symphony. But in that, you usually have the timpani and cymbals. But you wouldn't get what you have today: metal. Punk.
King Kraut: We talked about music styles. The first album by the RAMONES that I heard was "End of the Century", which stands out as an album because of its style and sound among the albums. Because I grew up with '60s music, I immediately noticed the connection between that and punk rock on that album.
Marky Ramone: That's where it came from. BEACH BOYS, JAN & DEAN, instrumental surf music like "Wipe Out", THE TORNADOES and THE SURFARIS, and of course we liked THE KINKS. We liked the early THE WHO, but we liked the sound of Phil Spector's girl groups. Then you take a bunch of Marshall amplifiers, play faster, and that results in the RAMONES.
But Phil Spector wanted to produce us. He approached us. Phil never approached anyone else. But he came and wanted to record us. So we were very grateful that someone of his caliber recorded the RAMONES. Many punk purists wanted to hear another "Road to Ruin" and "Rocket to Russia". Again and again. You can't do that. Times change. So it was an attempt to bring together two "Walls of Sound". Today, it's more popular than ever. A lot of purists didn't like the horns, the strings, the piano, whatever Phil mixed in. I mean, there are about 35 instruments going on at the same time.
Next, we recorded an album called "Pleasant Dreams", which I love. It's one of my favorite RAMONES albums. I think on these albums we showed our influences much more strongly. What we liked, where we came from, you know? Later, on "Mondo Bizarro" and "Adios Amigos", we returned to our original goal of three chords. But these albums were very well recorded, with good songs on them. The recording technique improved. Also because of the production, not just how we played. It's not just Phil Spector, but also the producer Shadow Morton. He had the SHANGRI-LAS, that sound, you know. And a producer named Shel Talmy, he did THE KINKS and THE WHO. They always knew how to get the sound. So we really respected the producer because we all felt that production was important.
King Kraut: Did you discuss which direction you wanted to develop stylistically?
Marky Ramone: We all contributed something, but Joey and Dee Dee were the songwriters. The ballads, the love songs, and the sweet songs were Joey's. The harder songs were Dee Dee's. I think when you get older, you think about things you did 10, 15 years ago. They applied that to the albums we recorded. We didn't plan it; it just happened. I played my drums in, maybe suggested an intro, added something to the bridge where the verse transitions into the chorus.
We never discussed producers. We listened to an album. "You know what, that guy is good, maybe he'll work on our next album. Let's ask him." Then Seymour, the president of Sire Records, called him and asked if he would work with the RAMONES. Like Graham Gouldman from 10CC, with "Pleasant Dreams", we did it that way. It was very simple. There was no plan.
King Kraut: Let's consider the historical context. When you look at the New York punk scene, where you come from, it was very musically diverse. None of the bands sounded like another. Then punk exploded in England.
Marky Ramone: A year and a half later, yes.
King Kraut: Did that later affect American punk music?
Marky Ramone: The English are very good at copying music. I don't mean that derogatorily. OK, for example: Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley; when they came out, that was the first wave. Then you had the BEATLES and the STONES, who imitated them. These and other "British Invasion" bands like the YARDBIRDS loved American blues. Then in '74, the punk scene came in America. The Brits said, "I like that, the RAMONES, Richard Hell, Patti Smith, TALKING HEADS, BLONDIE." Then they copied what we did. And mixed in the whole thing with anarchy. The politics, you know. That's the difference between British and American punk: American punk was a bit more like, "Let's have a good time together. Let's have fun. We want to forget our problems." In England, however: "We want to overthrow the government!" Because of the economic situation at the time.
They "lived off the land". In America, that's called welfare. America was in bad shape. We had just somehow lost the Vietnam War. America was in a miserable economic state. In New York, there were murders, gangs, and homeless people on the streets. It was bad. We were aware of that. But we also knew that you need to have fun in life. You can't always be depressed. So that was our intention: to provide temporary fun. That was the difference between England and America. But the Brits borrowed from the American punk scene.
It's like a cycle with music, you know? The second wave was the Brits. The punk scene arose in America. Then the punk scene in England. Then later came grunge. Then there was another punk revival, GREEN DAY and OFFSPRING. After that came who-knows-what. Dance music, electronic music, whatever. There's something for everyone.
King Kraut: Of all the New York punk bands, the RAMONES had the most consistent influence on the sound of punk rock. Was there a moment when you distanced yourselves and thought: We created the blueprint for a genre of music?
Marky Ramone: We never thought about it. We just played and were happy that other bands took our influence. It feels great when all these musicians and fans love what we do. When I hear a band, I want to immediately recognize if it's them, by their style. The moment you hear the RAMONES, you know it's them! That probably makes us so popular to this day. I believe it's the content of the lyrics, the energy of the music that resonates with the youth.
King Kraut: I was in Brazil and found it incredible how popular the RAMONES are in Latin America. Do you have any idea why that is?
Marky Ramone: Unbelievable. I think it has to do with the name "Ramone". That's a Latino name. I think it's the Latino name and, as I said, our lyrics and our energy. You put all that together and, hey, it's "los Ramones"! But that's not the real last name. That's just a name we adopted. So they saw something they loved and continued to love. Sometimes it's really hard to analyze why.
Marion: Maybe also because of the clothing. It's not expensive; they weren't dressed up. They were dressed like a normal teenager in South America. So I think they identified with them. You know, they just showed up in their jeans and sneakers and T-shirts. It wasn't a big rock star getup.
Marky Ramone: We didn't like that kind of behavior: "Hey, how's everyone doing? Today we want to party! We want to hear you cheer!" A lot of bands do that; I believe the reason is: They draw their energy from that. We didn't like that; we just played. We only counted in each song with 1-2-3-4. Because we don't like clichés. Maybe that's another reason why many young people and people back then liked us. It wasn't that typical, clichéd nonsense, you know?
King Kraut: I asked you about your motivation when you started. The RAMONES are no longer around, but you continue to make music, right?
Marky Ramone: Oh yes, I keep the legacy alive by playing 35 RAMONES songs all over the world. There's a whole new generation. And I think the songs are too good not to play them. People like to see someone from the punk scene of the seventies. And from the RAMONES, still alive, who continues to play this music. With the band members, I make sure they play extremely tight. And that the singer is not a "Joey clone". They should express themselves as they feel. And they must be fans first and foremost. They need to have listened to the albums, know the band, and really gone out to buy the albums. I did that for a few years with Andrew W.K. and with Michale Graves, who was the frontman and songwriter for the MISFITS. And it was great. It's just always fun to play the songs. But I have to make sure I play them as well as I did in 1978, and I do. When that stops, then I can't do it anymore. You have to stay good and try to get better.
King Kraut: Do you have the desire to add something new to music?
Marky Ramone: I made two new albums after the RAMONES broke up. Thirty of my own songs that I released on a CD. But when I performed that, the kids started shouting: "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker! Blitzkrieg Bop! I Wanna Be Sedated! Rock 'n' Roll High School!"
Then I knew there was nothing in the world I could do except play the RAMONES songs. Because that's what they wanted to hear. So fine, I love playing them, and if you want to hear them, then I will play them. I did that back then, and I do that today.
King Kraut: Thank you for the interview. Do you want to say anything to our readers?
Marky Ramone: Rogers is the best drum brand.
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