Q: Congratulations on the new album. The title is “Bastarde von Morgen“. To what extent do you see yourselves as bastards of tomorrow?
A: You start with a good question. The lyrics of the song have apparently been misunderstood a few times because many people only listen to the chorus and not the verses. The song is about society pointing at people like us just because we look different or for other trivial reasons. Nevertheless, most people have a shitty job. For example, when they go to clean, they are also cleaning up the mess of the richer and ruling people. From the subculture or from people who live differently than the masses, ideas and concepts come about how we should shape our common future. Life is not about profit but about sustainability. The people who are called bastards or outlaws are the ones who have developed the forward-thinking ideas. New ideas rarely come from the mainstream, but mostly from the subculture.
It’s not about us being the bad bastards, even though many seem to have understood it that way. Apparently, the lyrics come across ambiguously, although it must be said that the chorus is also very catchy. When I hear the song, the chorus immediately comes to mind. However, the song is not supposed to be one of those “underdog navel-gazing numbers“.
Q: You call your music style “Streetcore“. In many songs, you emphasize that you come from the street. How important is it for you to come from the street?
A: I can only answer that question as a person because it surely has different significance for each of us.
For me, it doesn’t play such a role. For me, authenticity plays a role. No matter in which direction. Not all of the great bands I know come from the street. It is certainly the case that the other guys weigh that more heavily than I do. I am an academic, but I feel much more connected to the street. Tommi, who writes most of our lyrics, has a completely different background. Tommi saw the street at 14 or 15. In contrast to me. I only really got to know it in Berlin at 21 or 22.
However, we do occasionally receive criticism that we exaggerate the street aspect a bit. I can understand that. It hurts a little, but I can understand it. This criticism, however, rarely comes from fans, more in reviews. Some find it cool, some do not.
Q: When I listen to your new record, I see parallels to Broilers in your thoughtful, melancholic lyrics. How do you see that?
A: We are good friends with Broilers. However, they have not influenced us musically or lyrically at all.
On the “Epidemie“, there are a few more personal lyrics from us, regarding things like heartbreak or death. Those were the themes that occupied us at the time. The lyrics on “Bastarde von Morgen“ came about in the same way. Look at the last two years. Even such hits as Fukushima disappeared from people’s consciousness after two weeks. The whole development of world politics has occupied us a hell of a lot. It’s not that we suddenly became thoughtful, but these were topics that were simply on the table while we were writing the songs. It’s just the world events that we wanted to comment on. However, we have never made a concept album, but it would be an interesting topic.
Q: The song “Das Problem sind wir selbst“ follows seamlessly from that. A song I wouldn’t have expected from TOXPACK. Especially in the left music scene, there are few songs that deal with environmental protection.
A: I’m glad you like the song. Many people see us as a bro band. I personally feel that very strongly, as I come from a different corner. I only got to know TOXPACK through a good friend, Peter Oz, who we recently buried. Peter called me back then and asked if I could record something for a band. At that time, I hadn’t heard anything from the band and had no clue about the Oi scene. Accordingly, my friends commented on it as well. If you listen to the first two records, the accusation of being a “bro band” is not entirely unjustified. But all those involved are getting older and more mature. Our lyrics are getting better just like our productions and our songs. It’s improving evenly. I think that’s good. TOXPACK will never be a political band, but hopefully always less of a bro band.
Q: Do you become more mature with age?
A: When I look at my bandmates, then yes. If you ask me personally… ask my girlfriend, then you’ll know.
Schulle, for example, has undergone a real development since I got to know him until today. Schulle has become a father and started a family. For Tommi, the only skinhead in the band, who also plays with STOMPER 98, the band and being a skinhead was the thing. He had to position himself. He had to stand up against the brown ones in Lichtenberg at 14. The clique he hung out with consisted only of Nazis. At that tender age, he decided that he didn’t want to go that way. Being a skinhead was a support and a hold for him. Therefore, Tommi still carries that flag. In the meantime, Tommi has also gained a lot of experience. We are internationally active with TOXPACK. With STOMPER 98, he is anyway. You get different input than here at home. You suddenly start thinking about other things. I do think we have become more mature.
Q: That also reminds me of the new song “Wenn Sehnsucht stirbt“. It’s also about external pressure and how to deal with it. How do you manage to stay true to yourselves?
A: That’s the only lyric of mine on the record. There’s always one or two songs on each record that I’ve written.
I didn’t think about how we manage to stay true to ourselves while writing the song. What really annoys me is the dress and behavior code in the scene, whether in the Deutschrock, Oi, or Deutschpunk scene. In Kreuzberg, I was cut off for years by all the cool guys because I didn’t walk around as a punk. I always did punk. I played in punk bands and everything. I always thought, “You are the real squares!”. I don’t have a mohawk. I don’t run around in torn clothes. Thus, I didn’t have the corresponding attributes, even though I was more punk than those who cut me off. Unfortunately, this is the same in many subcultures.
My main focus while writing was the topic “Deutschrock“. We try not to get involved in that topic. We do play a festival here and there because we have to and because it’s also a lot of fun. The festivals are well organized, and playing in front of 5000 people is great. In the Deutschrock scene, I particularly notice the behavior and dress code. When I wrote the song in the studio, I was reading a book by Rousseau, which among other things is exactly about this: Be yourself!!! Unfortunately, Tommi, when he recorded the vocals and I wasn’t in the studio, cut a line. My line was “…in Germany, we rock in step again”. The line didn’t fit well in terms of phrasing. But I thought the line was good, as a little jab at the whole Deutschrock scene.
Q: I have the feeling that these people, and also the Onkelz fans, always have a certain bitterness. There’s the attitude of “me against all”. Do you have any idea where this bitterness comes from?
A: I always associate the “typical” Onkelz fan with an Opel Manta driver. I think it’s about living conditions. You work hard and have nothing in hand.
Q: You have Roi Pearce and Paul Bearer as guests on the new album. What connects you with the two?
A: With all the guest singers we’ve had on the albums so far, except for Paul, we had dealings with them before. We played with them or met on tour. For example, we went on tour with Discipline for years and played gigs together. Friendships arise that can also be maintained thanks to the internet. In the past, you were much more isolated as a band. Today, you are much better connected. That’s really great. The connection to Paul Bearer came about when Tommi played in New York with STOMPER 98. He was wearing a TOXPACK shirt. That night, Paul Bearer approached him and said he had a cool shirt on. TOXPACK was the best German band he knew. Tommi replied, “I know, I play in the band!”.
When we wanted to record the album, we tracked down his tour manager through M.A.D. Tourbooking and re-established contact. Paul immediately agreed. Paul was the only one of our guests so far that we hadn’t all met personally yet.
It’s great that the people who also play in very well-known bands support bands like us. I’m proud of that. It’s quite an impressive lineup by now. You can show off with that.
Q: That also shows how connected you are with the (hardcore) scene.
A: In the musician scene, we have a completely different status than in real life. I believe we stand higher in the musician scene than in real life. Knowing that is almost enough satisfaction for me. At least when you exclude the financial aspect.
It’s just a cool feeling when a band that you listen to as a fan supports you.
I once read an interview where Roger from AGNOSTIC FRONT said he had a lot of fun with the guys from TOXPACK when he was in Berlin. That warms my heart when I read that! We do it the other way around as well.
Q: You also started small and were happy when a bigger band supported you.
A: Eight years ago, when I joined, we drove around for gas money, sometimes even for less. Back then, we never thought we would ever reach a point where we could earn a little money with music.
Q: TOXPACK has undergone a certain transformation. The band has changed, but so have the fans and the recognition in the scene.
A: At the beginning, the band was heavily influenced by BIERPATRIOTEN. We were often announced as “ex-Bierpatrioten” because our singer had participated in that. That annoyed everyone, especially here in Berlin. We played shows back then where up to 80% of the audience were skins. That went against my grain. Especially at concerts dominated by skinheads, when you see how the pogo goes off. If you have five or six macho idiots blocking the first three rows... we have more of them in the audience than other bands. That’s true. Even Tommi as a skinhead was annoyed by that. Here in Berlin, the proportion of skins at our shows is still higher than elsewhere. With STOMPER 98, Tommi finds that okay; they say “Oi, Skinhead Pride”. That fits with the band, but not with us. The label “Oi” hasn’t fit us for the last four albums at least. It definitely fit with the first two albums, but not after that. I would call “Aggressive Kunst” the birth of the “modern TOXPACK”, and by now we have also gained a much more heterogeneous audience overall.
Q: If you only know the first two albums and haven’t been to one of your concerts since then, you might still have that opinion.
A: That opinion is outdated. The first two albums were not right-wing open either. Anyone who claims that is talking nonsense. TOXPACK was just a bro group at that time, but never even remotely right-wing open! I’ve heard that Schulle had a certain closeness to hooligans in the past, and that is always equated with Nazis.
Q: Is it an acknowledgment for you that you are playing at S.O. 36 for the third time?
A: Yes, definitely! As co-headliners, we have won Kumpelbasis, by the way, I also played with them once. Kumpelbasis stands for left-alternative Kreuzberg punk. With that, we also want to set a sign. I’m curious to see how the concert will go. I believe that most fans of Kumpelbasis don’t know us, and vice versa is probably the same. The hope behind it is that a party will be made together. We want to set a counter-sign to the whole polarization that is taking place. This is an experiment. It could also backfire. But I believe it fits. The lyrics of Kumpelbasis stand for themselves, and ours do too. There is no TOXPACK lyric that calls for mowing down dissenters.
There were certain concerns from the security people at S.O. 36 regarding the show last year. I then organized a meeting with Antifa, us, and people from S.O. 36. After the conversation, they all gave the thumbs up. Nevertheless, the “Oi scene” still incites against us. S.O. 36 is now also a gray area because they let us play. We are trying to counteract that. This classification into gray area, right-wing open, etc. is total bullshit in this exaggerated form (Oi scene and Co). We play at So36, just like at Full Force, in Conne Island or Juze Buxtehude, and here and there at a Deutschrock festival, what’s all this shit about?
Q: Do you want to get those people away?
A: We want to show people that there is something else. I don’t want to say anything against Deutschrock in general, although for me it still seems more like the early Westernhagen. That the same term was chosen for the sound associated with it today, I find a bit strange. In Deutschrock, the lyrics of many bands are very similar. Unfortunately, there is always a bit of German nationalism.
Last year, when it was clear that we would go on tour with 9MM, they released a song titled “Schwarz, Rot, Gold (we stand by you)” in honor of the World Cup.
You will never hear such a song from us! Football songs, yes, but definitely not that kind.
I don’t even want to talk about Frei.Wild. I find them very questionable. I also find it strange that such bands are lumped together with unpolitical to leftist bands. If right-wing open bands are lumped together with bands like Towerblocks or us, then that’s really unbelievable! Then the truly right-wing bands can hide behind all the others, and that can’t be right!
We would definitely never play with Frei.Wild. At a big festival, sure, but not a club gig. At the Full Force festival, we were there last year after waiting many years for it. We played in front of 12,000 people. That was insane! I’ve been making music for 30 years, but I’ve rarely experienced such an atmosphere. We won’t miss such a performance just because Frei.Wild is also there. You will never see us in a club with that band. We don’t do that for image reasons but out of conviction because they are just shit.
Q: Where do you draw the line between (local) patriotism and nationalism?
A: I notice in myself that I am a local patriot, especially for Berlin and Kreuzberg. I can’t explain that rationally. I think it has a lot to do with psychology. I find a sense of belonging to one’s homeland completely okay, although for me it is limited to local patriotism. The left in Germany all have an aversion to Germany. In Portugal or Italy, for example, I experienced it quite differently. There, even the left are quite naturally proud of their country. I find that okay to a certain extent, through my own local patriotism. I wouldn’t judge anyone for that. In principle, however, the line between patriotism and nationalism is very thin. Most people I know who are patriots have long since crossed that line and are on the way to nationalism.
Q: I can also understand local patriotism. You can see it in Berlin during the protests caused by the influx of higher earners into the scene neighborhoods. The rents are rising, and the long-established population is being displaced. How do you deal with that as a Kreuzberger?
A: I get angry.
I notice it directly in my house. In the back building, there is a very nice apartment on the high ground floor, with a wooden terrace in front. I’ve been keen on it for a long time. I think it’s too expensive, but when you see people sitting on the terrace, you get envious. For a year now, there has been a huge turnover in the apartment. I’m going to go over there soon and ask if it has become a holiday apartment. There are people who have money, rent five or six apartments, renovate them, and then rent them out as holiday apartments. That’s obviously shit! Those are apartments that are off the market, causing the other apartments to become more expensive.
Six years ago, when I moved in here, there were only Turks in the house. Now, only two apartments are still occupied by Turks. The rest are students with money from dad. However, they are nice people. A lot has been done here. The backyard used to be just dust; now there’s at least roll grass.
The neighborhood is changing massively. If you live on Wrangelstraße, you develop a phobia against rolling suitcases. The neighborhood is overrun by tourists! The Falckensteinstraße used to be called Ballermannstr. Signs were hung over the normal street signs. That’s not an exaggeration.
It really annoys me at times! This is the first time in my life that I feel a kind of xenophobia. Not directed at individual tourists, but at tourists as a whole. Of course, they also bring money into the neighborhood. As a result, there are more cafes and pubs in the immediate vicinity, which is not all bad.
Q: If tourists with money decide to live or study here, gentrification can already occur on a small scale.
A: Kreuzberg is booming! That’s a fact.
As an example, I can mention the A&O Hostel on Köpenicker Straße. They started with 800 beds. Recently, they expanded by 400 beds! Where do the people who stay overnight on Köpenicker Straße go? Of course, some go to Mitte, but most people go to Kreuzberg! They want to build more hostels in Kreuzberg.
Q: Do you sometimes feel like an animal in a zoo?
A: I found that worse in the past. When you walked down Oranienstraße, the tourist buses would stop as soon as a few punks were visible. Then the tourists would get out and quickly take photos and photograph the punks.
Q: As a final question, I would like to know if you think anything will change due to the upcoming elections in Berlin.
A: It depends on who gets elected. I believe under Red-Green, compared to Red-Red, which we currently have, something would definitely change. I also hope that it happens. What I find very interesting are the poll results of the Pirate Party. It would be amazing if there were a three-way constellation of SPD, Greens, and the Pirates. As a long-time voter of the Greens, I have also flirted with the Left, but I probably won’t vote for them for the next 10 years. I still know too little about the Pirate Party; I need to inform myself first.
Q: If they get in, that would be a completely new approach.
A: Exactly. I think that’s something that not only Berlin needs. Red-Green was once the dream constellation for me, both as equal partners. And in opposition, a nice nasty CDU, but I believe those times are no longer the same. I believe that really new concepts are needed. Even though I think the Greens are very good, they have become very old-fashioned for me.
Q: I find that many of the Green voters give the impression of being leftist squares.
A: I feel the same way.
When the Greens gradually entered the state parliaments, I found them very refreshing. Even doing things like knitting in parliament. Men also knitted. Or the famous scene with Joschka Fischer in sneakers. I thought that was great! And it also moved things content-wise.
Today, even the most conservative support what the Greens have been saying for 30 years. That Angela Merkel presents herself as the anti-nuclear chancellor, no one would have thought that before. Even if she is from the CDU, it doesn’t matter. The result counts.
In the past, the Greens brought new impulses, but look at the Greens today. Only Ströbele has remained the old one, and he is one of the oldest. The whole new generation could also be in the SPD.
Q: Ströbele seems almost exotic among the Greens today.
A: I find it so sad that he is quitting. He always took the decision out of my hands. You can really trust that guy. I believe he is absolutely integral.
I hope that the Pirates, if they get in, are cheeky and try new things.
Q: The Pirates are a party that also represents the internet generation.
A: The FDP is increasingly becoming a kind of sect. It wasn’t that long ago that the FDP, with Westerwelle, got 15%. I thought, “Good night Germany”. Now the FDP is where it belongs.
I’m sure that when the election results are explained, the FDP will be at 2.5% and the Pirates at 6%. Guess where the voters will come from. A lot of voters will definitely come from the FDP. I’m sure of that! The FDP doesn’t just have all the reactionary assholes; it also has these hardcore liberals who represent things like civil liberty values. The Pirates could be a catchment area for those who no longer feel comfortable in the FDP. I find that an interesting mix with the Pirates. Left-alternative in background with liberalism. That’s not objectionable in itself.
The election result from Berlin is now in. Everyone can form their own opinion about it, but a few new impulses wouldn’t actually be bad. The Pirates have the chance to do that.
You also have the chance to see TOXPACK live in the fall and winter. You should take advantage of that. All information can be found at:
